Team Killing Issue and Solutions

As I have experienced and as I am sure many other players have experienced, there are some problems on the server that most of us agree should be either changed or fixed to solve the problem.

Let’s start off with one of the most simple, the teamkilling. Teamkilling is almost never done on purpose, and when it is, it is handled properly and quickly by NAK Command. The unintentional teamkillings have caused many problems on the server, such as squad play: where you are walking with your squad in modded gear and a friend with a machine gun, (say a Navid or some type of high rate of fire belt fed weapon) kills your team. The player then replies in chat, “SO SORRY FOR THE TEAMKILLING!”

We shouldn’t have to constantly deal with this unintentional teamkilling, and it honestly ruins the immersion and game experience for a lot of players and users. A possible solution to this problem would be to enable friendly and enemy tag in the game difficulty settings. This tag puts a green circle around friendly vehicles and players. This should stop the unintentional teamkilling and should allow for the players to continue on and enable for more immersion. Or, if there is a plugin that just marks the friendlies with green that would also work. Most of the time I personally love playing with immersion, but since many new players buy the game and choose to play on the NAK servers, we have to deal with many of the people who have issues with team killing, which seems to have become one of the major issues with I&A.

There should be a way that the players will get kicked or banned until server restart to punish them for team killing. Even if it is unintentional, the punishment will train them naturally to not team kill and they will be more cautious next time in order to not get kicked or banned. The ban shouldn’t last very long. Maybe like 30 minutes or an hour, possibly even til the next server restart. This solves the issue of the intentional teamkillings as well because if maybe say like the player kills over 3 friendlies, they will be kicked. Everybody accidentally team kills now and then, but this will train them to check their targets before they drop a bomb or lay down suppressive fire on a squad of friendlies.

Another good way to prevent the friendly fire is to completely remove the CSAT gear from all arsenals on both Altis and Malden servers. This includes Viper, Fatigues, and Helmets. This prevents even more friendly fire and adds realism to the game. Think about it, if I was running around dressed up as a Nazi in WW2 and I was American and got killed, it would be my fault, not my friendlies. removing CSAT gear should solve this issue.

Best regards, Dean

A possible solution to this problem would be to enable friendly and enemy tag in the game difficulty settings. This tag puts a green circle around friendly vehicles and players. This should stop the unintentional teamkilling and should allow for the players to continue on and enable for more immersion. Or, if there is a plugin that just marks the friendlies with green that would also work.

I am just one voice on the server for this issue, but I think this is a horrible idea. I do not want to see 70 green circles all over my screen. Players will learn and the intentional TK’s the green circles will just equal targets. We have a lot of new players, mainly due to Christmas, so TK’ing is increased right now. Help these players out, take them under your wing and explain to them how to use the arsenal, how to HALO, where to get transport and how to identify friendlies. Once Arma fixes the map ping, it will make things a little easier. As far a plugins/mods go, when a server starts requiring mods, the server loses players, and this is not something we want.

As far as the punishment is concerned, we have admins to judge the situation. We have had punishment scripts in the past, if we put the punishment in the hands of other players the admins have no idea which players are chronic TK’ers. A player may get punished by players three days in a row and the admins would not know. The way we do it now, the admins have notes on every TK kick. If I see someone who is TK’ink often, I change the kick to a ban. As admins we have guidelines for every rule violation. The other issue with script punishment is the pilot or commander of a vehicle is punished for the gunners TK’s, which could be resolved with scripting, but would affect server performance. If an admin is not online make sure still to report TK’s in game chat, we do look at the logs. Players have the ability to vote kick if it is a serious issue and no admin is online.

As far as the CSAT gear, that is only a very small amount of the TK’s, and to remove it would lower server performance. Then you have mods that replace the CSAT default clothing but have the same look, these could not realistically be removed. On a server that allows players to use a large variety of mods this is the give and take.

I have tried to help many new players, and it seems that some people never learn how to ID their targets. The green circle thing on your screen would be a problem, but this was just one of the many solutions. As for the punishment, I was not talking about putting it into the hands of the players, that is just pure ridiculous and a player could be banned if some guys just wanted the player banned. I was talking about just making an automatic punishing system. If the player kills maybe over 3 in the timespan of an hour, they will get banned for an hour. 3 strike policy. So if the player teamkilled 3 in an hour it would go to an hour, then 3 in an hour it would go to 4 hours or some-odd number, then a day, then a week, so on and so forth. The system would just reset the timeframe that it banned them for. So like if they got banned for an hour, it would take only an hour to reset. So on and so forth. This isn’t a perfect model, and I understand that, but it could be a basis for a new system to stop teamkilling.

Ahh and that is a bummer about the gunner, in that case, do you guys get pinged or something when a teamkiller kills?

We get pinged whenever someone types admin. I personally get pinged with the entire sentence which is why i try to tell people to type admin, player name, and issue in one sentence so i don’t have to start playing detective and can immediately get onto the issue.
On that note, make sure you know what is going on before you report. Don’t just report because you saw someone killed a person in the chat log or mass tked in the chat log (couldve been a bad bomb drop) etc

Yeah, i never report based off the chat because it is unreliable.

Also enabling the option to show friendly name tags (when your mouse is over them) would reduce unintentional friendly fire.

what about auto ban player with more then 3 tk ( till the server restart) :wink:

Couple issues with automatic bans.

  • A pilot can easily kill three people in one pass. It does not excuse them for unintentionally TK’ing, but if it is accidental, a potentially 6 hour ban for a single mistake is a lot.
  • If a pilot drops a cluster bomb and there are unexploded mines, it will show as a TK if a player detonates one of those mines. It is possible that a player could be banned too no fault of their own.
  • Last, is the issue of the pilot/commander/driver showing as the TK’er, when in fact it is the gunners fault.

Claws I’m sure that with enough time you could write scripts to work around these issues. If you want to take this on at some point I would fully support it if we have solutions for these issues.

indeed wont work

How about it is only 30 minutes, this way the admins can have enough time to get on and get the teamkiller if it is an intentional teamkiller, the admins can ban them.

accidental TK at AO is acceptable for me but get shot by teammates inside base is really hard to forgive. i don’t how they did it because everytime i misfire there will be a window pops out but it seems not effecting them.
and i got kicked by revenge tk, i accept that or even a 3d ban i’ll follow the rule. i’m cool now, but it’s really hard to shut up and keep calm at there. it really need a script or something like that to restrict players from shooting at any base, like more than 3 rounds and get kick, and do that 2 times again results a 1d ban, etc.
also i know admins have alot things to do 'cause they’re normal people, so there always delay in responding admin calls, but wait too long makes people feel it’s not too risky to TK for fun, this i’ve seen a lot. they may not eventually get away from penalties but if they think they could, they will start hunting friendlies, that we all have seen a lot i believe. but if admins responding calls very quick at least there will be let’s say ‘deterrence’, witness a penalty scene make people think twice before they do anything that ruins someone’s gaming experience. so fast respond please.
sorry for bad english.

We have two methods for players to handle situations like yours when there is no Admin online. First players can use the Vote Kick. To use the Vote Kick go into the Map>Players>“Players Name”>Vote Kick. It does take 25% of the players online, but I have seen it work when a player types what is happening then does the vote kick.

Second players can write a Misconduct Report in which you include some basic information (a template is available) and an Admin will review the logs and take the correct action.

At this time we have a lot of new players, and we as Admins will review solutions to prevent TK’ing at base. We left the script as it is right now so players could use vehicles at base to defend against AI air and ground forces. We will discuss changes that we can make to prevent players from using this to kill teammates.

Hello,

I wish to answer on this subject which makes me particularly react.

Indeed, I think of my profession, soldier, which leads us professionalism within our respective units.
It would be unthinkable to open fire on a target without having thought a split second, although this second could be fatal.

Also, after raising our weapon, what is most important before and after each shot, is the analysis, to be sure of target.
If no analysis is done, it can cause collateral damage, and worse the death of civilians.

I don’t say I do it every time in game, however I often check how the soldiers are arranged on the map and I recheck if I’m not sure.
Of course we can’t constraint to all players but one thing is certain is that if all the people on the server were looking at their map a little more and analyzing their target, we would have less collateral damage.

It happened to me already I don’t hide it, like throwing a fragmentation grenade instead of a smoke grenade … or shoot an ally in a house …

I think it’s difficult to find an appropriate solution.
We can try to awareness the players with this, maybe by writing it on a board:

A weapon must always be considered loaded.
Never point, or point, the barrel of a weapon at something you do not want to destroy.
Be sure of your target and your environment.

Not every player can be on map, due to ARMA squad assignment, that’s why this doesn’t often happen in Zeus server because we’re mostly in the same squad, unless the same one or two people decide to go Rambo.

I notice people cannot distinguish NATO uniforms as friendlies. Everytime I wear Multicam or MTP with Ops-Core helmet, and somehow I’m always a bullet magnet to mid/long range friendlies. Yesterday someone even put a MBT 120mm HEAT round directly into me, it was ringing holy loud. But at least someone apologized :astonished:

@VileAce or @Claws, I suggest we put picture templates of friendly/enemy examples on the rules screen & billboard during the initial server login, which would show them FOF’s color or shape differences, maybe say something like “PID target’s uniform/gear, Look for this helmet/camo in picture 1, Don’t shoot OCP/Multicam with ACH/FAST helmet in picture 2”. People might not read words, but I think pictures are hard to miss. What do you think?

I understand what you would like, but to be honest I do not think it would help much but I do not have a problem with trying it. I think a lot of the TK happen because people are in Thermal and all they see is a white spot so they shoot.

Also with an increased number of independent AI in the AO’s it is harder for players to identify friendlies vs opposition.

people don’t have your mods setup will see you as a guy dressing underwear holding a air gun. and people dress what they like, so not everyone’s dressing multicam uniform. PID targets is a part of game that player must learn themselves by keep playing this game, you can’t just put pictures in there to tell people what’s what, trust me there will be like 100 boards around bases and people are most likely don’t give a damn about em. it’s a bootcamp thing. if one team all wearing red another wearing blue, friendlies and enemies all holding together, what’s the fun part? it’s the core element of this game, learning. it’s really not a bad thing to have accidental TKs, everyone’s been there, just a little ‘sorry’ and players get smarter next time, that’s the fun part.
that’s why i’m suggesting do this more manually, just to prevent INTENTIONAL TKs and trolling. it has been done on a heavily ruled server, jsoc or something, you could see it went very well.
i just saw vileace doing lot stuff few minutes ago on Altis server, it’s nice. absolutely nice. everything under control, people who willing to playing on this server feel everything in order, excatly what i’m trying to say. maybe he don’t have the time manage everything down range tell people what’s good what’s bad but it’s something, deterrence. and you don’t have to do that all the time. once they witness actions, knowing admins are online and ready, this will eventually change player’s behaviors, plus all those nak elites playing on server doing the same thing, this will effect a lot of people, and one tell another, it’s definately a good thing. if new player clusters come again, just do this again.

Nisbel, Multicam MTP is vanilla, everyone should be able to see it. Besides if vanilla players see others in bright white underwear and/or holding air gun, that’s even more obvious for a big “No-shoot”, AI don’t look like that… Most people on server I see do dress some kind of NATO Camo, but I agree with Vile’s statement of people are likely just see & shoot all thermal contacts without PID.

Also you misinterpreted my suggestion, the pictures are FOR REFERENCE purpose, just to show people how friendly & enemy Camo looks like. Everyone would see it if it’s on the pop up log in screen, all you need is one. This is proactive, not deterrence, while admin enforcement is relatively reactive. As Vile said, it probably won’t work super well, but at least we try providing the teaching tools on our part. It’s better to teach players so we could welcome more to play on NAK, rather than simply hard enforce the rules.

P.S. That’s also how real world works, one team in blue while the other in red. You rarely see a mix of 20 camo types in one location…

you know what? first, i think that’s your logic as a vet. but casual players or new commers are not following those logics. they’re most likely, not thinking anything, just shoot something that moves. players interested of something, shoots. players wanna get in vehicles, shoots. players trying to tell you to wait, shoot. players see something they don’t understand, shoots. players don’t think too much, shoots. players too nervous, shoots. players don’t know what to do, shoots. not to mention there always players dressing guerilla outfits/ghillie suits/vr suits/or even CSAT uniforms, in some case it’s really hard to tell who’s who in long distance, where TK always happening. MTP or not they’re just random pixels. it makes no sense to you, but it happens all the time. 'cause there’s no such thing as ‘logical’ at those kinda player’s game environment. they just need time to learn how to play a game like this, how to play ball with others, how to do this how to do that, they need to keep playng this game, you can’t really tell them what to do, it’s just some temporary memory, disconnect, poof - next time join in server, same old shit different day. thermal, MTP, naked, instruction picture templates or not they will do something wrong, get the warning and then learn from it. it’s the best way follow the rules of nature evolution, let them experience everything. one gets tk’ed, he will warn tk’er. ‘sorry, my bad’, ‘try not use thermals all the time’, solved. another player learned PID first before shoot. why is this not helping?
and, what i mean 100 pics, is if you follow this method and if it’s somewhat actually working, it will become more and more. like ‘do not drive cheetah’, ‘do not firing at base’…etc. it will become annoying and so people will completely ignore it.
and last, i know how camo works but this is a game, it’s basicly a milsim game but not every player playing it that way. what do we expect, since it’s a game server that allow people dress what they like? and i do think rules need enforce, otherwise just let everyone do what they please, rules means nothing. i don’t think nak server gets popular because admins are soft, right? and what i am saying is the INTENTIONAL TK part, it’s a must. i also think that’s how ‘teaching’ works, you do it face to face, done it manually, way much better than a pic that easily get ignored. i know it’s hard, but it works. i saw it last night(my timezone), it worked. so i believe it will work next time. memories, experiences, is all about impact. maybe detterence is not a good choice of word, but hey i’m not good at english. so impact. you see an active admin doing actions, that’s impact, that memory will last a little long for them. players with good behavior will also feel the impact, that this server is protected, they’re protected, free from troller’s funny moment, that other servers may could not provide.
but actually, idk. i’m not a nak member, just a player, i don’t know what exactly is your job, your part… just my thoughts from where i understand about multiplayers. who knows? maybe it’s better keep everything unchanged, maybe put some pics helps, maybe put a bootcamp around spawn point, i honesly don’t know. but i’m seeing what people truely hates, most of it, intentional tks & ruining other’s game experience, so i do think those are critical issues that needs fixes, not a bootcamp lecture.

We have made some changes to Altis that should limit the Team Killing that has been happening at base. We will monitor the changes to see if it improves.

I am also sending a private message to players that have under 30 hours on Arma when they connect to the server. This message tells them that they can ask for help by typing !new in the chat window. When they do this they will get some basic instructions. At the same time a global message will be sent to all players indicating that there is a new player and they may need some help, please help the community by helping them.

We will also monitor this to see if it is being used and if it improves the current increase in TK’s that we have been having as of late.