V-44X Blackfish

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Bandit-Angel 1-
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December 7th, 2018, 10:00 pm

Recently I have noticed several players taking a liking to either flying or gunning on the V-44X Blackfish and it has been a blast with the right crew. We have had positive comments from all around including ground troops because the cover we are able to support. It is a great thing to have eyes in the sky and to work with JTAC, other ground units and friendly CAS.

The thing I am hearing, and I personally can agree with this, is that the spawn time on this vehicle is 30+ minutes. The vehicle is an immensely powerful asset as long as it is used correctly. I have heard a few compelling arguments as to why the spawn time is so high and I'll share that. It is very powerful, no objection there, and it can wipe out most ground all alone. This is where I would like to put my two cents in: The blackfish is slow and is very prone to being shot down which requires great coordination between air assets to cover the Blackfish. Used wrong it can have a devastating effect on friendly units in close proximity, even the smallest round available which is the 20mm which requires JTAC and ground units to coordinate safe attacks. Blackfish pilots require JTAC, ground units, and CAS to take out enemy anti-air assets before being able to orbit the AO since we only have an effective range of 2.5k.

I see both sides to this and with that being said I would like to see a shorter spawn time, possibly 15-20 minutes. I'd like to hear input from players who enjoy this Asset as well as players who are against the shorter spawn time. Put your thoughts below, I'm sure many of us would like to see how this can positively or negatively affect the community.
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December 7th, 2018, 11:01 pm

ok

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CodyHawkCaster
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October 1st, 2019, 7:13 am

You are absolutely right when you say that it is probably one of the most fun vehicles in the game. And after you’ve pointed out al the stuff needed to make it effective something finally clicked, a complaint I’ve always felt and said. It always feels like as soon as you take off in a blackfish or black foot the entire OPFOR Air Force comes to play ball. This I now realize may be due to pilots dedicated to the vehicle. Now we all know you aren’t suppose to be a gunner if you are a pilot but sometimes you get caught up and t just happens. That takes 1-2 pilots out of the air no acting as early warning systems for the others.

Anyways yeah I completely support the lowered spawn time. Perhaps 22 minutes?

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VileAce
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October 1st, 2019, 7:53 am

This topic is over 9 months old. The respawn time has been reduced for more than 7 months. If you are going to the gunner in an air vehicle, then you should leave the pilot role and gun from any other role.

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WilliamTesla
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October 1st, 2019, 9:58 am

CodyHawkCaster wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 7:13 am
You are absolutely right when you say that it is probably one of the most fun vehicles in the game. And after you’ve pointed out al the stuff needed to make it effective something finally clicked, a complaint I’ve always felt and said. It always feels like as soon as you take off in a blackfish or black foot the entire OPFOR Air Force comes to play ball. This I now realize may be due to pilots dedicated to the vehicle. Now we all know you aren’t suppose to be a gunner if you are a pilot but sometimes you get caught up and t just happens. That takes 1-2 pilots out of the air no acting as early warning systems for the others.

Anyways yeah I completely support the lowered spawn time. Perhaps 22 minutes?
Despite the topic being old, the issue to WHY all of the assets around the map end up going for you is not lack of friendly CAP (Combat Air Patrol)/CAS (Close Air Support) but due to how massive the V-44X Blackfish is. You can get more information here but as a TL;DR (Extracted from the website):
A prime example of this in action would be flying against the AAF's A-143 Buzzard jet; the Buzzard's active radar only has a maximum range of 8 km by default. Against the Blackfish however, the former's location can be picked up by the Buzzard from almost 14.4 km away the moment the Blackfish's active radar is switched on. Needless to say, the Blackfish is not the most ideal aircraft for operations that require stealth.
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CodyHawkCaster
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October 1st, 2019, 3:49 pm

WilliamTesla wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 9:58 am
CodyHawkCaster wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 7:13 am
You are absolutely right when you say that it is probably one of the most fun vehicles in the game. And after you’ve pointed out al the stuff needed to make it effective something finally clicked, a complaint I’ve always felt and said. It always feels like as soon as you take off in a blackfish or black foot the entire OPFOR Air Force comes to play ball. This I now realize may be due to pilots dedicated to the vehicle. Now we all know you aren’t suppose to be a gunner if you are a pilot but sometimes you get caught up and t just happens. That takes 1-2 pilots out of the air no acting as early warning systems for the others.

Anyways yeah I completely support the lowered spawn time. Perhaps 22 minutes?
Despite the topic being old, the issue to WHY all of the assets around the map end up going for you is not lack of friendly CAP (Combat Air Patrol)/CAS (Close Air Support) but due to how massive the V-44X Blackfish is. You can get more information here but as a TL;DR (Extracted from the website):
A prime example of this in action would be flying against the AAF's A-143 Buzzard jet; the Buzzard's active radar only has a maximum range of 8 km by default. Against the Blackfish however, the former's location can be picked up by the Buzzard from almost 14.4 km away the moment the Blackfish's active radar is switched on. Needless to say, the Blackfish is not the most ideal aircraft for operations that require stealth.
Huh I never stopped to even think about the whole radar detection range thing. But it makes a ton of sense

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October 1st, 2019, 10:59 pm

Just a note on the blackfish....enemy air will always priotize it over all other air targets.

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VileAce
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October 2nd, 2019, 12:31 am

Just a note on the blackfish....enemy air will always prioritize it over all other air targets.
This is not true if you look at the FSM (logic) file for the enemy air, they prioritize air targets but it does not differentiate between the class/type of aircraft, first seen first attacked. Every few seconds the logic looks for any air assets, then if none are found, it looks for armor, if none are found then it looks for infantry. Once it finds a target they stay focused on the target until it is dead, lost or until it gets attacked by a different target (if it is attacked it runs a separate FSM).

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WilliamTesla
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October 2nd, 2019, 6:30 am

REAPER6 wrote:
October 1st, 2019, 10:59 pm
Just a note on the blackfish....enemy air will always priotize it over all other air targets.
VileAce wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 12:31 am
Just a note on the blackfish....enemy air will always prioritize it over all other air targets.
This is not true if you look at the FSM (logic) file for the enemy air, they prioritize air targets but it does not differentiate between the class/type of aircraft, first seen first attacked. Every few seconds the logic looks for any air assets, then if none are found, it looks for armor, if none are found then it looks for infantry. Once it finds a target they stay focused on the target until it is dead, lost or until it gets attacked by a different target (if it is attacked it runs a separate FSM).
Well, if we're speaking practically @REAPER6 is right, despite it not being in the scripts, if you consider the fact that for a shikra a blackfish will be on it's radar the exact second as soon as it spawns in, so, yes and no, they shouldn't prioritze you, but they will as you're the easiest to see in a V-44X Blackfish
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VileAce
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October 2nd, 2019, 8:21 am

How is the Blackfish the earliest to see? How does the blackfish radar signature differ from the other air vehicles, excluding stealth variants.

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WilliamTesla
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October 2nd, 2019, 8:30 am

VileAce wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 8:21 am
How is the Blackfish the earliest to see? How does the blackfish radar signature differ from the other air vehicles, excluding stealth variants.
A quote from here:
Lastly, the Blackfish's extremely large dimensions make it undisputedly the worst when it comes to remaining hidden from electronic sensors. With an extremely high base RCS rating, it can be detected on radar at 180% (160% on infrared/visually) of the opposing sensor's default maximum range.
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October 3rd, 2019, 7:40 am

I sent a reply yesterday, but I was out of the office at a top-secret facility, and come to find out they filter all internet traffic in and out of the facility, even if it uses an external carrier, think about that one.

Just to be clear with everyone, if two air targets are next to each other on all axes, then yes the Blackfish will more likely then not be seen first. But the way the AI searches for air targets is very random, so the odds of finding one vehicle over another is, very random. The Blackfish does have one very big disadvantage over to other air vehicles, in that it is very unlikely to be able to lose the AI.

Looking at the AI code, if you are in a faster plane then the AI, then there are two ways to quickly lose them. First, is to change your altitude by more than 1.5k, second is to change your position to be more than 60 degrees from the nose of the AI. If you are a slower vehicle, your only real hope is to have someone else shoot that the AI.

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WilliamTesla
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October 3rd, 2019, 8:16 am

VileAce wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 7:40 am
I sent a reply yesterday, but I was out of the office at a top-secret facility, and come to find out they filter all internet traffic in and out of the facility, even if it uses an external carrier, think about that one.
Well, that's food for thought! Though here I did find an interesting thing, most of the local PD's here have jammers around them, I noticed that the key to my car doesn't always work properly when I'm around 20 - 50 meters away from a PD.
VileAce wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 7:40 am
Just to be clear with everyone, if two air targets are next to each other on all axes, then yes the Blackfish will more likely then not be seen first. But the way the AI searches for air targets is very random, so the odds of finding one vehicle over another is, very random. The Blackfish does have one very big disadvantage over to other air vehicles, in that it is very unlikely to be able to lose the AI.
Well, I did say "practically" though from the technical side it is a bit less possible, but you'll realise that if a blackfish is up (Speaking from experience here) you must be sure that your CAP is close and ready to engage everything, as I can assure you, I've learned to dodge rockets from all angles with a blackfish, including from below, or even above! And the angel wing flares (Probably another reference to the C-130) certainly help surviving, but, you will run out of them incredibly fast.
VileAce wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 7:40 am
Looking at the AI code, if you are in a faster plane then the AI, then there are two ways to quickly lose them. First, is to change your altitude by more than 1.5k, second is to change your position to be more than 60 degrees from the nose of the AI. If you are a slower vehicle, your only real hope is to have someone else shoot that the AI.
Not gonna lie, I'd say that this should be fixed somewhere as reference for all the pilots, I didn't know that and always had one only way of "losing" an AI CAP. Turn around and shoot it down before it gets to you.

I did notice an interesting fact though, if you use terrain to your advantage, you do have a small chance of losing a Gryphon, and I'm not sure if it's just an ilusion that I had, or if it's actually a thing but I noticed that if you keep very low and quick flight through mountains you eventually lose it despite being much smaller and appearent. Once again, I don't know if it's my own feeling, or if it's actually a thing. (In a V-44X Blackfish)
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October 3rd, 2019, 10:53 am

VileAce wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 7:40 am
I sent a reply yesterday, but I was out of the office at a top-secret facility, and come to find out they filter all internet traffic in and out of the facility, even if it uses an external carrier, think about that one.
Usually in prison they just take away your phone. Guess that this works even better :lol:
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October 3rd, 2019, 5:28 pm

Wave wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 10:53 am
VileAce wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 7:40 am
I sent a reply yesterday, but I was out of the office at a top-secret facility, and come to find out they filter all internet traffic in and out of the facility, even if it uses an external carrier, think about that one.
Usually in prison they just take away your phone. Guess that this works even better :lol:
Damn Wave!!! Control yourself!!!

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WilliamTesla
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October 4th, 2019, 2:59 am

Lorenzo wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 5:28 pm
Damn Wave!!! Control yourself!!!
Edit - image removed copy right on image
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CodyHawkCaster
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October 4th, 2019, 9:35 pm

VileAce wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 8:21 am
How is the Blackfish the earliest to see? How does the blackfish radar signature differ from the other air vehicles, excluding stealth variants.
Heres a quote from the wiki:

Lastly, the Blackfish's extremely large dimensions make it undisputedly the worst when it comes to remaining hidden from electronic sensors. With an extremely high base RCS rating, it can be detected on radar at 180% (160% on infrared/visually) of the opposing sensor's default maximum range.

So going from the wiki a Shikra on active radar will have a radar range of 13km. Against the Blackfish however it will be able to see it from 23.4km away. For reference thats the distance from main Infantry base to the town Negades, just to the North of Kavala. Or to state it another way, if you are in the center of the map a Shikra can spot you anywhere on the map. So yeah its a BIG target.

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VileAce
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October 5th, 2019, 2:09 am

I think there is still a misunderstanding, the way the AI searches is 'random', therefore even if it could be seen at that distance if the AI finds another target first, based on its scanning of the space, then the fact that it could be seen does not matter.

There is never a guarantee that it will be the first target selected. My comments where in reply to the statement "enemy air will always prioritize it (the Blackfish) over all other air targets" this is not the case. Yes, the Blackfish becomes a valid target at larger distances, but as long as there are two valid targets in the AI's scanning range, either vehicle could be chosen, in fact, there is more of a chance that it will target the nearest vehicle.

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WilliamTesla
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October 9th, 2019, 8:19 am

VileAce wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 2:09 am
I think there is still a misunderstanding, the way the AI searches is 'random', therefore even if it could be seen at that distance if the AI finds another target first, based on its scanning of the space, then the fact that it could be seen does not matter.

There is never a guarantee that it will be the first target selected. My comments where in reply to the statement "enemy air will always prioritize it (the Blackfish) over all other air targets" this is not the case. Yes, the Blackfish becomes a valid target at larger distances, but as long as there are two valid targets in the AI's scanning range, either vehicle could be chosen, in fact, there is more of a chance that it will target the nearest vehicle.
Oh, for sure, I understand your point, I just wanted to make it clear that under the "usual" conditions (With lots of uncontrolled variables) the blackfish will most likely become a target.
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